The Biz Dojo

S3E13 - Finding Clarity Within - Part 1 - w/Jamie Smart

November 02, 2021 Jamie Smart Season 3 Episode 13
The Biz Dojo
S3E13 - Finding Clarity Within - Part 1 - w/Jamie Smart
Show Notes Transcript

This week in The Biz Dojo, we're joined by Jamie Smart, who quite literally wrote the book on Clarity. Jamie is a best-selling author, renowned writer, speaker, coach and consultant.

In this first episode of a two-part conversation with Jamie - our first ever two-parter! - we talk about some of the common misconceptions of 'ability', discovering what is already within you, and the moment of clarity that inspires change. 

Experience comes from within, and you'll discover in this conversation just how true that is. You'll definitely want to hit that subscribe button to make sure you get part 2 of this one! 

So, take a moment to clear your mind, sip on a  Biz Dojo Coffee (Masters Medium - OR - Dojo Dark), and relax. Everything you need is already within you.

You can also visit us at the links below to join the discussion:
Website      |      Facebook      |      Instagram      |      LinkedIn      |      Twitter


Check out Newsly (https://newsly.me) and use promo code B1Z2021 to get a free month of premium description. 

Beyond A Beaten Path
Need a unique gift idea? Check out Beyond A Beaten Path - because everything else is boring.

Support the show
JP Gaston:

Hey, you should be listening to us on the news li app. Just visit newsleave.me to download today and listen to the entire internet, including podcasts like this one. You can also check out our conversation with founder Jani season three episode eight.

Voiceover:

This episode is powered by Airdrie DQ grill and chill owned and operated by local entrepreneurs. Check out one of their three airdry locations today and pick up a blizzard ice cream cake for Dilly bar. The Biz Dojo is also brought to you by be on the beaten path. If you're on the lookout for a personalized gift had to be on the beaten path.ca and get started on your custom creation, beyond the beaten path, personalize it, because everything else is boring.

JP Gaston:

So what I'm starting to get a sense of in our journey here with coaching is not everyone necessarily understands what a coach is, or does or the training they've gone through the value they bring.

Seth Anderson:

That's a tough thing to box in. Although I would say most professions are really like, I think as humans, we like to compartmentalize and be like, Oh, that's what that is. Or that's how that goes. And I think what I've learned through my own personal experience, and I'll just even say the last nine months, like this year, basically, I guess, 10 months, is part of my aversion to coaching has been I'm thinking of Cartman right now, but like, I do what I won't like people don't like being told what to do, I think generally like is it? I don't know, that conjures up all kinds of feelings of being wrong or whatever. And I think the biggest thing that I've learned about coaching, the most effective coaching I've ever experienced, has been had nothing to do with anyone telling me what to do

JP Gaston:

really honest, good coaching is not at all telling you what

Seth Anderson:

to do. There is a type of code like a behavioral coaching. Oh, yes, yes. Like, it's still coaching. It's just when I think about, you know, what motivates me, or what motivates you or motivates anyone, it's our thoughts and feelings, and you think something, then you feel something and then you do something. And I think where I've had challenges with coaching, let's just say the first 30 Some years of my life was a lot of it was behavior based, like hey, don't do that, or, Hey, do more of that, or, you know, just very, very focused on, you know, the the very last domino in that triad, I guess, for sure. I don't know, there's there's three dominoes in this analogy. That's the last one.

JP Gaston:

Yes, it would be a triad that No, how many dominoes there were. So

Seth Anderson:

I think there's three, there might be more, but I think we'll stick with three nice and simple for everyone. And, you know, for me when I started working with a coach that and it's interesting, because I was reflecting on this the other day, it wasn't like, you know, I had this profound moment where it's like, Oh, my God, this person that has all these credentials, and they've done all this stuff, and whatever. Literally, it all started from him asking me a question and being curious. And then sort of creating this space where I just started a tapping into my inner wisdom, and then be you know, I kind of took the lessons, the learnings, the conversation. And then I went and did something with it in my life. Like, if I were to boil it down to its simplest components, that's, that's really what's been happening, but it's been, it's been life changing. Like those those actions, those behaviors, those habits, those things that show up every day have completely changed. But it all started with thoughts and feelings.

JP Gaston:

We are as humans very good at, like you were saying, covering it up and saying, Oh, I've got this, like, I don't need coaching because I can handle this. And then inevitably, what happens is people get to a point where they like I could probably use a hand better understanding why I got here how I got here and hope. I mean, hopefully they get to that point. Because some people don't and they never really uncover the truth which allows them to uncover where they could take themselves.

Seth Anderson:

Yeah, well I think you know, we get into it in this episode. I don't know if it's in so so exciting things are first part episode. And I haven't listened to it yet. So I'm not sure if it's in the first part of the second part. But I really and it's it's also in Jamie's book so Jamie smart is our guest obviously seen that when you clicked on me. Listen, part of the episode

JP Gaston:

or if you're an innocent bystander sitting in a car listening along, please download this and make sure you catch Part Two later when you're not driving with whoever is gracing you with our presence.

Seth Anderson:

But I really love the analogy where the the drunk guy is looking for his keys under the under the light under the light and they're like oh, where to drop the keys. He's like ah, two blocks over Why are you looking here? Well, the lights better Hear? And it's like, it's sounds ridiculous. But how often I mean, I've, I've been there, right? Like, I think, Oh, why can't Why can't I get the job I want or the, you know, whatever, any list of things that I Oh, I want this, but I'm not even actually looking for it. I'm over here focused on this other thing. That's not even anything to do with that thing.

JP Gaston:

Yeah, it was, there are a ton of those in this conversation, I have listened to it as the person who puts together the final edit, I have had a chance to, to listen to it. And it's, it is like, it was so good to just talk to him. I think it was even better to sit and listen to it as a silent observer, the second time through because you just there's so many things to pick up on and, and Jamie just so easy to talk to. Everything was very deep. But it was an open conversation I loved it

Seth Anderson:

had you know what I keep thinking of, you know, it was such an amazing opportunity to get to sit and talk with him. Like, I'm still like, I don't know, I'm still jacked off about that part. But like, as I was just sitting there watching, and again, we're worlds away, he's over in England, we're in Canada. And every time he would kind of go deep into thought, and he would start to talk about something, he would just close his eyes. And he would just like, he was summoning up all of his like, inner thoughts and feelings. And like, I don't know, it was just like this whole other level of like presence and inner wisdom, like, some Jedi, Yoda level conversation. That's that's how I like it.

JP Gaston:

It literally see, like, people talk about mindfulness in meetings, and they use all those sorts of terms, especially these days, it becomes more and more of a thing. As more and more corporate environments get involved in mindset and mindfulness. That is the first time I will say that I have experienced true mindful focus on a conversation and providing an answer to not even a question because it was just a conversation, it was, it was just, we were just spitballing on things. And he would just go into this zone. And I, I didn't even know what to say after half the time,

Seth Anderson:

it was really special. And I think I don't know, I want to I want to get to that Yoda zone.

JP Gaston:

Just started randomly closing his eyes as he does things to see if he can summon the beast within,

Seth Anderson:

if you want to tap into your inner wisdom and just kind of slow everything down. And just be quiet. And I think if you listen close enough, whatever it is, that is giving you stress or worry or concern, you probably have an answer to it, or at least a step forward that you can take, if you can, you can find that inner wisdom.

JP Gaston:

Well, and I think that ties back to how we started this conversation. Jamie is a master level coach. And we both hope to be at that level one day to your point. But that is what a coach brings to the table, they help you find that moment of clarity where you can sit and you can close your eyes and really focus on something internally so that you can find the answer so that all the other noise goes away?

Seth Anderson:

Well, I think that's one of the common, you know, questions is what's the difference between like coaching and therapy, for example, and I mean, therapy can be highly valuable for people and, you know, if that's the road, you want to go down that, you know, totally, totally cool. But coaching is very future focused versus going back to the past and sort of, you know, dealing with trauma or or, you know, digging into what might have happened and sorting through all that it's more about like where do you want to go? How are you going to get there? What is, you know, how do you kind of create your own future. And one of the things I love about or that I've learned about coaching is you know, life is like a, like a balance beam. And it's like how do you and you're constantly constantly going to be knocked off balance. That's been the biggest experience for me through coaching and being coached is learning that I already have the tools that I need to stay on the balance beam to stay focused to to correct not correct but to tap into my myself and and figure out what I need to stay on the balance being in a given moment or get back on in a given moment. And, you know, a thought to ponder if you build on that analogy for yourself is when was the last time you felt in balance Welcome to The Biz Dojo, Stephen JP. This week we're joined by Jamie smart. Jamie is the best selling author of the book clarity, as well as a world renowned coach and based in England. So welcome to the dojo. Jamie.

Jamie Smart:

Oh, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Seth Anderson:

Yeah, no, this is this is a real treat. really special for me. So I had, I'd reached out via email a few weeks back, and JP and I've been doing this, we call it shooting shots, just people that inspire us for a variety of reasons. And you were one of those people for me where I told told JP, I'm like, I'm gonna shoot a shot with Jamie smart and see what happens. And here we are. So I just want to start off by thanking you for your time. And tell you that you honestly, your your teddy bear video changed my life. Oh, wow. That's cool. That's cool.

Jamie Smart:

How did it how did that happen? Like, what was it that you saw or heard or realize that had such an impact for you? Because that's like a five minute video, right?

Seth Anderson:

It's a five minute video. And it's not even the whole video, it's just the part when I connected that every thought that I have comes from inside of me inside of my psychological capacity. And like just something about it in that video, the way that you you've explained it and the whole teddy bear analogy, it just it just, it just clicked. And ever since that day, I just see life differently. I'm just like, oh, like, that's coming from inside of me. It has nothing to do with this external circumstance, whatever it is good, bad or otherwise. And so I've been spreading the good word of the teddy bear video. I think I've shared it with like, 100 people at this point. And maybe we just start there. Like, where? When did you figure that out? Like, what was the moment in your life? When you're like, oh, all my thoughts come from inside of me? Well, you

Jamie Smart:

know, I didn't figure it out. This is a funny thing. So I had, I'd been my background, I was a an IT project manager doing, you know, organizational change programs. And then I went on a training course, by influence skills back in the late 1990s. And I had an insight that weekend, which is like, oh, I want to do this. I want to work with people. I want to coach people, I want to train people to quit my job a couple of weeks later, and I retrained as an NLP trainer, so I I built an NLP training business and did all that. And I was good at that. And I enjoyed that. But something wasn't quite right. And so I went, I read a book called The Four Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. And I was like, Oh, that said, I need to basically go on mini retirements and go on adventures around the world and then I'll be happy. I'll be so I'll go powder skiing and Katmandu. Or I'll do this and then I'll be I'll be so successful that I'll be very happy. So I organized my business to take my first mini retirement, which was a three months Ski holiday in Whistler in Canada, I was like, this is going to be fantastic. So I was I was a Whistler and kind of six weeks in is kind of like this, isn't it either. And I couldn't understand it. Because according kind of to the rules of my industry, I should be so happy. I'm, I've got work I enjoy. I'm on a ski holiday and I should be lit. I'm living the dream externally. So why don't I feel like what what's missing? So I went back to the drawing board, I hired a coach. And my coach, unbeknownst to me, had started looking in the direction of what sometimes called the Inside Out understanding what I refer to as the principles behind clarity or subtractive psychology. It's a set of principles discovered by a guy called Sidney banks who's dead now, but he, he realized he realized that our experience is being created from within. By the way, this is backed up by old neuroscience, a guy called Herman Helmholtz discovered this in the 1850s. He's like the granddaddy of neuroscience. And he's like, yeah, no, our perception of the world is induced, we were moment to moment like even as we sit here, right now, we're receiving data via our senses, and then taking a guess at what's going on in the world. So this stuff supported by the neuroscience, right? So I started looking at this stuff, and I was like, No, it's more complicated than that. It's not it's not as simple as that. But at one time, I was like, Oh, my first insight was like, oh, no, this is it. Everything you've been looking for or outside of yourself. Is is already there within you. It's your your it's being created from within. Now I went from not knowing, to knowing that like you know your name, because what happened was something that's happened for you, Seth was, I had a realization. Now a realization is just a, like an internal system update, it adjusts our perception and brings it closer to reality. And we've all been doing that our whole lives like this is part of the core learning process for human beings. So we all have this innate capacity for insight and realization. And we're using it all the time where it's kind of an unrecognized capacity. But but so I had an insight like, oh, everything you've been looking for outside of you is already there within you. I was like, Whoa, well, that explained why I couldn't find it. Whistler why couldn't find it in the business success. And although I'd be looking in the wrong place. Now, here's the funny thing. I'd heard that for years. Because I, you know, I'd explored spiritual teaching, and everyone says, oh, yeah, the kingdom of heaven is with it. Yeah, I get it now. Now, where am I gonna find it? It's like, well, you've already got it. You've already got it. And so that was my first insight, second insight into this stuff. But what was funny, actually, so I'd had that first insight. It was like, Oh, wow, this changes everything. I was part of a men's group. So my buddies were around one night, at the end of our session, I said, Hey, guys, could I talk to you about this new stuff? I'm learning like, Sure. So I talked to them about this stuff for a little while. And then during that I had another realization, I realized a lot. The fact that a person can even see, hear, feel, perceive the fact that someone's even having a human experience means they have this source of clarity, and realization and resilience and transformation. Already there within them. They've already got it. Well, as a coach, and as a trainer, that was an instant game changer. All of a sudden, I'm so much more hopeful for my clients, because I'm like, Oh, they've already got what they're looking for to it, they just don't realize it. So immediately, my impact with my clients started going through the roof, it was just like an overnight thing. And again, this is stuff we'd heard before, you know, I was an NLP trainer. So we had this idea of, everyone's already got all the resources they need already within them. But then we said about Okay, so how are we going to get them at that and that sort of thing? And it just simplified everything was like, oh, no, they've already got it. The only issue, isn't it, the only issue is, they don't realize they've already got. So that was a game changer. Then third insight. I'm not going to tell y'all, we're not going to be like the three movies in June of 2000. And I said, because up until that point, I'd thought that this was an interesting approach and interesting methodology. And all of a sudden, I realized, oh, no, this is principles. This understanding is to psychology, what the discovery of germs was to medicine. And I in that moment, I was like, oh, game changer, called up my office said, we're changing direction. There's principles for psychology. This is what I'm going to be doing for the next 20 years. Did I want to at left the field of NLP, wrote my first book clarity, which became a number one bestseller, wrote my second book results, which became a Sunday Times bestseller. It's now 12 years I've been looking in this direction, I'd be looking as hard as I can for anything that proves it wrong. And I haven't found anything yet. It's an it's a game changer. It's a game changer. So that's the that's the long version of this. That's the long version of the answer to the question.

JP Gaston:

That's funny where, I mean, Seth and I have both been doing some coaching for a while. And we've been through through some of our own programs and whatnot. But we've gotten obviously, with the with the podcast and whatnot, we've gotten a little bit more serious about it, taking some additional learning. And I do find that as you take in some of that coaching, experience it and unlock something in your perception of the world like I've, I've always listened to and we've talked about it on the podcast. Before I was there's a show that I always listened to under the influence that talks about marketing psychology. There's just all these little pieces of things that are apparent in my life, and I never connected them until I started the coaching journey. I'm hoping that maybe one day I'll be the one having the conversation where I say yeah, I've been doing this for 20 years now and I've got a couple of best selling books and hoping hoping to piece things together like that. But it's it's incredible to me how many people step out of their traditional roles, and they pursue something like coaching and it just something in their brain instantly clicks and they start connecting with things they already have inside them, like, like you're talking about for clarity, they start connecting all of those pieces, and realizing that there's something more,

Jamie Smart:

I really like that way of putting it. And the way it looks to me and this is gonna, this will probably sound odd to people who are listening. But one of my favorite books is the book anti fragile by the author, Nassim to lab. And it was where I got a way of thinking about this one, which is that, while our conscious minds are, are geared for additive approaches, so like, if you look at any magazine, in the, it'll have on the, you know, clickbait covers, seven tips for a tidy house or five keys to six pack abs, or, you know, four secrets to red hot sex, or the seven foods you have to eat to lose weight while you sleep, or whatever it might be. Right? It's additive advice, and of what we do we we see that with, that's exactly what I need, we get our five tips, so we read them. And every single one of them, we're like, oh, yeah, no, that's so obvious. And then we don't apply them. Because while they're there, sort of like sugar, or crack cocaine, or whatever, they're very more ash, they don't actually connect with with our deeper reality like that a way of thinking about it is people are always doing what makes sense to them at their current level of understanding. So whatever their embodied understanding of life is, that's what they're gonna do, right? If you say, Hey, why don't you do this good idea. We've had it right, you've got some problem or challenge or whatever. Someone says, Oh, why don't you just do this, and you're like, yeah, and then you don't do it. Because you don't have an embodied understanding of? Well, the thing that makes people change is insight, they get an embodied understanding of life that allows them to do that thing. But insight is subtractive, it actually takes things off your mind that gives you less to think about. So the way I think about these principles are what we share with people is like, you don't know people have a lot on their mind, like, everything was social media and information. We teach this simple understanding, that allows you to take things off your mind automatically, like without meditating or without medication, or any that stuff clears your mind automatically. So you can focus on the job of do the stuff that matters to you, and that sort of thing. That's, that's what I mean by subtractive. Psychology, it's something that takes stuff off your mind, automatically.

Seth Anderson:

You were mentioning, having an insight, and it took me back. So just about three years ago, I'm sitting in the parking lot of a hotel in Vancouver, and had just started a bit of a personal wellness journey, I was, you know, probably six months into it at that point, and lost some weight, gone to the gym, starting to feel good about myself. Improving my relationships, things were things were headed in a good direction, but I was still had this. drinking, drinking is always been an issue for me, as I was coming up. And the reason why a couple reasons why one of them was anyone who hung around me when I had a drink would see me turn bright red, like I had some sort of alcohol sensitivity. And I just kind of ignored it. Because I thought that in order to be successful in business, and to have friends and to, you know, have you know, effective relationships and go to sporting events you needed to drink, like I just thought, like, that's, that's part of the gig. And so I just sort of ignored all the things that it was doing to me personally, and kept drinking. But there I was, I'm 32 years old at that time. And I'm hungover, and I've got to go to a meeting. And I just feel like, and I had been feeling like it. And as much as I was working out, I wasn't seeing the benefits. And I was just like, You know what? I'm done. That's it. And I never had I've never taken another drink since then I just decided in that parking lot. In that moment. I was done. And I wrote a list of like, seven or eight things, of all the reasons why I was done. And I made sure in my head, I don't know if I made sure but in my head, I'm like, I'm not quitting, because my wife wants me to or because anyone thinks that I should. I'm quitting because I don't want to drink anymore. Like I'm done. It's not serving me and I'm moving on with my life. And I don't know like for me, I didn't need a support group. I didn't need counselling. I didn't need any I just I just stopped and I've never gone back and I've never even had an urge people like Oh, it must be so hard. I've literally never had an urge ever to have a drink. I'm just like I'm done. And the moment you know, that was like the the moment of the insight and then at the moment I knew that I could do it was I was helping my friends start a business. And we flew down to Detroit. And we met with the CEO of this company who wanted to sort of buy our idea or whatever. And so we're in like his penthouse suite in, I think it was Dearborn or something like he, it's like, we're this fancy area of Detroit. And he's got his private wine cellar. And he's pouring glasses of wine for everyone. He's like, Here you go. And I'm only like, three weeks into it at this point. And I was just like, No thanks. And I knew in that moment, that I was good. And all of it was in my mind, Jamie, like, that's the thing that blows my mind. Like, I don't know, I don't know if that sparks anything for you. I know, you kind of have, I think a similar insight at some point. And I just wanted to share that and kind of see where you went with it.

Jamie Smart:

Well, I love your story set. Because what it speaks to, is actually like all over the world, there are people who have managed to stop drinking in a way that's healthy, natural, all that stuff for them. And what I'm going to assert is that it's always the same thing that does that, which is they have an insight, they have a realisation from within. And so all of a sudden, the thing that made sense yesterday, doesn't make sense anymore. Well, and things that didn't make sense yesterday suddenly do like whether it's, well, I'm going to suggest that that's always the thing that creates change. Now, people may have those insights, while they're going to a meetings or while they're going to therapy or while they're on holiday, or while they go for a long walk or the context where they have those realizations can change. But the thing that or they may go, Okay, I'm gonna give you an example. I decided two years ago, you don't want I could do with doing yoga, I'm going to do 30 Days of Yoga, even though it's kind of I'm terrible at it, I prefer to do things I'm good at, I'm going to do like a yoga with Adrienne, I'm going to do 30 days,

Seth Anderson:

I did that I did that as well.

Jamie Smart:

So I so I'm, I'm I do my 30 days of yoga. And I don't know when it happened. But at some point in that it suddenly made sense to keep doing it. So I've been doing it ever since is two years, two years, I've been doing that. Now. It it didn't make sense to me to do it a week before, it made sense to me to do the 30 days of it. But I had no plans to do any more of that. But at some point in that 30 days, something shifted. And it suddenly made sense to me to do that. Well, it looks to me, like that's what happened to you, you'd been going through whatever you've been going through. And at a certain point, you went, Oh, this is gonna stop, I'm not going to drink anymore, then, you know, okay, I'll write out this list of stuff. I'll be clear with myself about why I'm doing it, why I'm not doing it, not sort of thing. And then your, how you perceive the world has now shifted one, what I'm going to suggest is that real and sustainable change. However, it looks for people is always driven by the same mechanism. If if a person if a person's embodied understanding of life hasn't upgraded or updated to include the new behavior, they'll do it for a bit, and then they'll backslide though, because it because it didn't make sense to them to continue. So what you what you've described, has all the hallmarks of a lasting and sustainable change. It's, it's, it's a shift, rather than just getting yourself to do it or something like that.

JP Gaston:

So I love that. I feel like it's a it's almost like a hard entry point. Like, there's there's two ways you can go, you can go the software where you try to force yourself into change by doing small things that other people might be doing that probably aren't the right thing for you. But you heard that they're, they're great. And so you're gonna try them that, you know, the seven steps for rock hard abs. Your titles were great, by the way, I think you were probably in lead magnets. Yeah, exactly. But like, I feel like those sort of soft approaches, almost never do anything. Because you have to eventually have that hard entry point, even with those steps.

Seth Anderson:

I think it can though. Like, it depends. I think we're My mind goes to sorry, Jamie is one of the jump in there. Like I just read the relationship handbook. Dr. Jack pranskey, I think wrote that. George Prince George pranskey. That's it. Yeah. And the thing in that book that blew my mind was the concept of you can change your mind like that. Like, like literally most they the the perception is it takes a long time to change. But change actually happens in an instant in a second. And whether you do the micro habit like you try the seventh thing, you could still find an insight in there. The point is like, just when you find that insight, like

Jamie Smart:

well, in a way in a way I think you're both saying the same thing, believe it because my take on this anyway. The only thing that ever makes a difference in someone's life in a sustainable way, is that moment of insight that shift in their perceptual array. Now that shifts can happen in a darkened parking lot after an all nighter, it can happen while reading seven top tips, it can happen while deciding to do 30 Days of Yoga, it can happen. I mean, if you ever read Victor Frankel's book, Man's Search for Meaning, he, he was being route marched across a frozen field by Nazi prison guards. He was a prisoner of war as he is in a concentration camp, and he's barefoot and on the brink of death, and he fell to the ground. And one of his colleagues was trying to get him to get back up, because they knew that if he stayed laying on the ground, he just be shot or kicked it out there. That would be the end of it. So he's lying there, and he can't get up, who suddenly has an insight. And he realized that the one freedom that could never be taken away from him was his ability to make his own meaning of the situation. And he suddenly is filled up with with, you know, filled up with the spirit and that sort of thing, he gets back up, and it keeps him going for the rest of the war till he's released. And he goes on to found the field of logotherapy. And to write books and a total calling. Now he had that insight is on the verge of being kicked to death by a Nazi prison camp guards. So there are no conditions that have to be there before someone can have a life changing insight. The power is in realizing that the powers in the insight, not in the seven steps, or the the car park, or the frozen wasteland, or the 30 days of practice, or whatever it might be, that capacity for insight and realization is there within you is there within me, it's there within everyone. And the more we're able to attribute that to where where the power actually is. And here's the thing, we live in a world where our attention is being pointed elsewhere, it's being pointed to the seven top tips or to this brilliant course or to that, whatever it might be, when actually the powers in each one of us. But as far as

JP Gaston:

I see it, and our world is ever pointing us like I can only imagine that since since you started on this journey. Like in the in the 20 years, there has been significant change in the amount of us getting pointed in directions that are just distractions. Well,

Jamie Smart:

it's so funny, you know, I wrote my first book, clarity over 10 years ago, and the second edition is coming out next year. So I looking back at the introduction of the book clarity, and that kind of the theme of the inch Pro is that with everything from apps to social media, it's, you know, the information revolution was interesting. But the opening to the book, the first quote in the book is from a guy called Herbert Simon, he said, what information consumes is obvious what information consumes is our attention. So the information revolution, by definition, carries with it a voracious appetite for attention. I when I wrote clarity, 10 years ago, I was pointing that out, it's like, Man, this is this is really full on, well, 10 years down the line, and it's like, Are you kidding me? I didn't know how good I had it. 10 years ago, now I've got like, whatever it is, you know, tick tock and and, you know, Metaverse and Oculus and all that sort of stuff. Well, it's very, it's very hypnotic, and it's very engrossing and the big social media companies are just marshaling the most incredible AI powers to draw our attention into them and to, to engage us and all that sort of stuff. And so I think it's never been more important than ever to just really understand what we've got going for us and that we can, we can kind of take, take ownership of our attention.

JP Gaston:

I think you, you referenced it, as far as information goes as saltwater, that that clicks for me. When you're talking about how it's salt water to quench your thirst, you're, you're just gonna continue to be thirsty.

Jamie Smart:

Yeah, that's for sure.

Seth Anderson:

That one takes me back. We had a guest on the pod last season, fella by the name of Walter Vandervelde. And he's a professor in Belgium. And he did a TED talk on the future, the most important future skills in the workplace. And what I loved about it is he sort of distilled it down to these five skills that I think anybody could understand. and start to work on but one of them. That was just like a nuanced different version of time management was attention management. Yeah. And that, I don't know if it was like a paradigm shift for me, but it was like, oh, attention management that makes like, that's what I'm managing here, because you can't manage time. And like, it's such a buzzword, but it's like, I can manage my attention. And all of a sudden, I can come up with like plans and strategies and be like, okay, like, I'm on to something. So that, to me, it was just like a simple word change, similar meaning, but that one word change just totally shifted how I saw that that whole part of myself

Jamie Smart:

makes total sense to me. Do you remember what the other four were

Seth Anderson:

creativity, critical thinking, social intelligence, attention management and self management?

Jamie Smart:

Yeah, I agree with all of those that looks. And it looks to me like the principles behind clarity underpin all five of them. The it's funny that the Institute for the Future, produces lists of future work skills, and that sort of thing. And, and they came up with their version of that list a few years ago. And then, and then a couple of years later, they said, Oh, we forgot when we overlooked one, or the one they overlooked was resilience, and the prevailing ideas that you need to teach resilience, but the fact of the matter is, we have resilience built in, we've already got it, it's there, at the heart of our being. And the only thing that gets in our way is the belief that we don't have it. And it's like that with so many of these qualities, like, I can't tell you how many people come to me because they want coaching on confidence, when actually what they describe as confidence is really just a lack of insecurity. If you speak tennis, like I'll bet, I'll bet you guys have people listening to this podcast, you think, Man, I wish I was confident enough to do a podcast, but or wish I had enough self belief or whatever. I've been doing podcasts for years. And I know, self belief and confidence have nothing to do with that. It's like you'd show up and you do your work. And you're, you know, you don't need to feel a certain way to show up and do a podcast, you don't need to feel a certain way to write a chapter in a book. And so these, these ideas that we need to develop confidence or develop resilience, or even develop self belief, they look like phantoms to make their illusions. You've actually got all that stuff inside you. And all you need to do is kind of get rid of the stuff that's been getting in the way of it. And

Seth Anderson:

that was, I don't know if that was Sidney banks, his main insight. But if I recall the story, it's something like he's walking along the beach with someone and he said, how insecure he was. And then it got reflected back to him. You're not insecure, you just think you are or something like Yeah, yeah. If you just like slow your brain down and just think about that for a second. It's like, oh, like, yeah, and that can be applied to anything, anything we think. But I do think that, you know, if I think of this podcast is that example, I was out for a walk. And I was thinking, and it just came to me, and it was just there. And I was like, We should do a podcast. Hey, I know a guy that knows how to do radio stuff I'm going to call JP. And like, all these dots just started connecting together, all from a thought in the moment. And I could have overthought it and been like, oh, I don't know how to do a podcast, I'll never be able to do a good one, or like, what, but I didn't Well,

Jamie Smart:

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened at some point, or that how that certainly happens for a lot successfully, they have the idea and they start doing stuff, then they get insecure. And then they just keep going anyway, and it won't work. So

Seth Anderson:

I could talk about this all day long. And maybe we take it to like clarity. So like the you know, for the the people who like a nice formula and and the math, clarity equals capacity minus contaminated thinking, or contamination. What is like if you kind of take that down a level, what does capacity mean? Like what is what is what are the roots of capacity? Well,

Jamie Smart:

my assertion is that we're all born with an innate capacity, for peace of mind for wellbeing, for security, for love and connection, for presence for confidence, for resilience. For happiness, or joy. These are innate capacities, you know, they're so easy a baby can do them. You know, they so they're built in, their built in. Hey, here's the funny thing. There are certain things which aren't built in like how to do a podcast isn't built in how to use an Excel spreadsheet or ride a bike, or paint a paint and paint good painting or play the game. It's hard. Those aren't built in capacities, those are learned skills, the ability to learn them that's built to learning is an innate capacity. So these are innate capacities but, but all too often in our society, people treat those innate capacities as though their skills to be developed, you know, you could type how to be happy, and to Google, you'll see lots of people, well meaning people, teaching people here are the things you need to do in practice in order to be happy. Or how do you you know, how do you have more love in your relationship or while you need to buy flowers, you need to do this, you need to do that. So you've got that, that that stuff that's built in love, connection, happiness, resilience, peace, joy, security, it's built in so that the power is in a knowing what you've got gone for you knowing that it's built in, and then be just having an eye to what it is that gets in the way of it like because a way to think of those innate capacities is sort of like the kind of Nottingham in the UK right now. And so it's, it was sunny earlier, but right now it's cloudy. So, actually, it's sunny all day, but just sometimes there are clouds in the way. But the sun's still there, the sun hasn't gone away the sun was this, in fact, even last night, in the middle of the night was pitch black, the sun was still just doing its thing, the sun's still there, where we're just, you know, there's a planet in the way at night. And so the, there's nothing you need to do. In order to make the Sunday there, the sun's already there. You don't have to put the sun in the sky, the sun's already in the sky. And the source of the love and the joy and the peace and the clarity and the confidence and the resilience and all of that stuff, the security and the well being the source of that is already there, the art of your being you don't need to put it there. It's already there. It's already there. And in fact, the attempts to put it there is what has people, you know, the belief that it isn't there, and they need to go find it, put it there, that's what's causing a lot of heartache, a lot of mental health challenges. You know, they if, if the viewer had asked me to give the kind of the root intensifying symptom of the vast majority of you know, every day mental health challenges people have, it would be the belief that there's something wrong. There's something missing that they don't have that I mean, I bet there's people even listening to write this right now saying, oh, yeah, that's a nice idea. But I don't have that I don't have that source of peace and love and security within me. Or if I had thought, why don't I experience it? Why am I you know, stressed or worried or bothered, or whatever it might be. But the only thing that ever gets in the way of it is to miss to two simple misunderstandings. Number one, our experience is created, which is kind of what the teddy bear videos that basically our experience is created from within. We live in a world where it seems like it's coming from outside, as a trick of the mind, it's really, really not seems like it's coming from outside, it's actually coming from within, please the first misunderstanding. And the second is people people have a misunderstanding of who they really are, they think that what they really are is, you know, their body or their personality, or their grades, or their, their you know, their bank balance or their, their height or whatever it might be. But actually, who you are is is that source of clarity and peace and resilience and well being that resides at the heart of your being, and is there and everyone is there in you? And is there any is there and everyone listen to this. And we all lose sight of it, you know, we all overlook that they all run the risk of getting caught up in, you know, whatever's going on day to day,

JP Gaston:

I think one of the things that folks often default to is they talk about their environment. They talk about, oh, I grew up in this environment, and therefore I don't have that in my toolkit or I don't have that skill set or I don't have that same capacity as someone else. So how would you handle that conversation when someone says, you know, I grew up in I grew up in the Bronx versus AI you know, I grew up on the, on the right side of the tracks and I had all of this enabled for me.

Jamie Smart:

Yeah, well, it's the I have the the huge advantage of having worked with a lot of people who grew up on the wrong I started the tracks, and a lot of people who wrote grew up on the right side of the tracks. And some of the people who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks were doing great. And some people who grew up on the right side of the tracks were really struggling and vice versa. So I've seen all so I know it's not now, I know, it's not that but the way I approach someone in that situation, or in any situation, the first thing is to acknowledge the reality, which is that our, our patterns for how we understand life and engage with life, they did get laid down in the past, like, that's where we learned, that's where we built our models for life, our models for the world and that sort of thing. That's where we kind of build our game plan for life and a best shot at how does life actually work. So we built it in the past, where else we're gonna build it. So, so acknowledge that, but the, what I then do is, with anyone, regardless of what they're presenting challenges, or whatever it might be, my starting point is to do my best to get their world I want to understand how it looks to them. I don't know if you've ever heard of the concept of a straw man, straw man. But there's another concept called a steel man, which is, if you're if you're going to steel man, someone, you're you're building the best possible version of their argument that they would sign off on. And I see it almost like that, that I'm, I'm looking to understand their world so well, that they would sign off on it that they would go hey, you get

JP Gaston:

what popped into my head was I heard this story about the Wright brothers, their neighbors used to complain about all the yelling, but it's, it's not the yelling, you would think it is because they they actually had a policy where they would argue totally openly for 20 minutes, and then they would actually take the other person's perspective. And they would have to argue for whatever the other person's perspective was, to try and convince themselves that the other person was right. And it's just a very interesting approach, I imagine it, you know, caused a lot of stress in their lives. But it was a very interesting approach.

Jamie Smart:

Well, here's the funny thing. So so when I sit down with a client, you can imagine, I'll have clients coming to me with really significant business challenges. They're trying to solve people who have often mental health challenges or addiction problems, but that's the thing. My starting point is I want to get their world I want to understand how they see reality, and I want to understand it well enough, that they'll sign off on it. And so my sweet spot, with with a client is they're like, you get me, you get they they like they feel they feel got fully understood, because what I found is that once you really get your clients world, and they they feel genuinely understood, they kind of relax, and they feel safe. And and my metaphor for it is like, what I want to do with my client, because I know that the solution to whatever has been bothering them before they hire me, they've tried every right. So the solution to whatever they need, it's not going to be found in their existing understanding of the world. Right? So I want to get what's their existing understanding of the world, because it's not going to be in there. So I want to know what that looks like. A my metaphor for it is, it's sort of like their understanding of the world is sort of like a raft that they're floating through the river of life on. And so I want to climb onto that raft with them. And I want to have a good look around it, see where the edges are. And I'm very interested in the edges, because they don't know what's out there beyond the edges of the raft. And so why don't we know where the edges are on grabbed by the shoulder, and we'll jump into the water. And when they climb out of the water back onto the raft, the raft has changed. And so if I use Seth's example of his insight that he wasn't going to drink anymore, that was off the edge of the raft that he'd been living on the previous day, like he had new raft from that day. And what I'm looking to do, and all my coaching, is I want to create the conditions for people that have those exact kind of insights that Seth had, I know that they have the capacity for that. And so I'm, I'm kind of betting the farm, on their capacity for insight. The thing I've found makes that most likely to happen is if I really get their world and kind of follow my curiosity into the unknown,

Seth Anderson:

I love that I. So I work for a coach who are not worked for I'm working with a coach who worked with one of your students, as I understand. So Justin Perkins, he's, he was based in Colorado, but he just moved to Germany and think, but he worked for anchor or he, he did some work with English. Who was one of your folks and it's funny how when you like sit back and you think of all the things that need to happen in the world for two people to connect. Like, it's crazy. But we had just moved out to this, this new new place. And we had neighbors that moved in like a couple days later, and I met this guy, and he's like, Oh, you have a podcast. That's cool. You should meet my friend. And so he hooked me up with Justin. And we have this zoom call like this about him coming on the podcast. And we've still never talked about him coming on the podcast, because we just connected I don't I don't know how to explain it. I don't know how to. It was just he just saw me. And we just ended up having this conversation. And I'm, like, have to work with this person. Like, I just like, I don't know why, but like it, it's there. And when we when we've talked about, like, what happened in those conversations, and it was curiosity, like just genuinely, he got on my raft with me. He's like, what's going on here? What is that I double clicked on a couple of things. And I was, and I just felt something I've never felt before where it's like, I need to make this this investment in myself. And I think up to that point, when I thought about coaching, it was like, you're paying the coach. And this is I think, I don't know, I just kind of wanna vibe with you on this. It's like, oh, I'm paying the coach, like, that seems like I'm not gonna pay someone to do something that I can figure out on my own. But it was like, in order to find this next level, myself, this person gets me. And I'm willing to invest like this, this, more than I've invested in anything that wasn't a house or a car, to figure that out and go down that journey. But like, I think the crazy thing for me, Jamie was like, it wasn't even about the money, like I didn't even matter. It was just like, I just need to go down this path and learn and go on this journey. And it was all because he got on the raft with me. All of

Jamie Smart:

it. Yeah, it looks essential to me, because because that that feeling you had that sense you had that he was there with you and could see something that's possible for you, or, more importantly, could allow you to see that there's something possible for you, even if you couldn't put words to what it was like, I know, for me when I've hired a coach or gone on a program or it's often been, because there's I know there's some it's like, there's something here for you. Not exactly sure what it is, but I can feel that. It's that that that next step is there. So I totally get what you're talking about. And the curiosity and the kind of sense of connection are really being heard and listened to. It's it's very, very powerful thought to tell you guys, I mean, because I know all kinds of different people listen to your podcast, that same set of qualities I found to be completely invaluable when it comes to sales and enrolling clients because if you're willing to really, really listen to someone and get their world and find out what what their heart's desire is and what they're wanting to have happen, your chances of presenting something to them that's going to be a no brainer, yes, it really goes up. So it seems to me like a really valuable it's just a really valuable skill set for anyone who wants to just have more impact with the people you're in connection with.

JP Gaston:

Thanks for joining us for this special two part conversation with Jamie smart. Remember to hit subscribe or follow and join us again next week as we continue the conversation in part two. You can also join the discussion on our social media pages with at biz Dojo podcast and search for The Biz Dojo on LinkedIn. Of course, if you're curious about what coaching can do for you, connect with us for a free consultation and discovery session. Just email coaching at the biz dojo.com